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Game balance and immunities
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How to balance spellcasters?
Keep immunities and high resistances.
 39%  [ 11 ]
Reduce area of effect spells damage and increase their cost.
 35%  [ 10 ]
Link spell damage calculations to player weapon damage so casters are balanced same way as melee
 7%  [ 2 ]
Reduce mana shield and blood pact from 100% so casters need to gear for defense
 14%  [ 4 ]
Delete sorceror and necromancer
 3%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 28

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Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Posts: 80

PostPosted: 17 Mar, 2017 2:26    Post subject:

I believe that dealing with immunities should stimulate more skillful play, but not just routine complication of the game.

Have -726128716% reduce X resistence aren't skill play, is just GEAR.

I suggest the following options:
1. Do not touch monsters immunities/resistances. Remove completely cooldown from Elemental Drain, but as a drawback during its effect add heavy Manaburn to all monsters’ attacks. At least this will stimulate Sorcs to play carefully and avoid unnecessary damage at any cost.

This can be usefull, but this will balance ONLY sorcerer, sorcerer is not the only who have problems with immunities, we need balance ALL classes, 6 classes and every character can be changed to be much more balanced.

2. Do not touch monsters immunities/resistances. Move Elemental Drain from Skills into Page 5 Spells, so they will cost mana and some amount of heath simultaneously. So Sorcs will have a chance to break some % of resistances but at the cost of extra risk.

No, so every character will broke immunities, so imunities will be nothing, just use a spell and break. Elemental Drain is a skill with sinergy with Sorcerer, not a general spell.

3. Do not touch monsters immunities/resistances. Very interesting option might be introduction of some “extra financial cost” for redusing resistances. It can be something like Soulshots /Spiritshots in Lineage II. They should be kept in the inventory and will be consumed at every spell casting and they will add removal of some % of monsters’ resistances. And they will be dropped on death together with the gold. This will again stimulate careful play.

Is a interesting option, but will have big issues, like inventories spaces and much coding for a little thing who can be made more easy.

4. Do not touch monsters immunities/resistances. Introduce one separate class of unique items (e.g. charms) which supposed to be in the inventory and it will remove some % of monsters resistances. But spells will start to cost money (e.g. 100 gold per every cast). So Sorcs shall always carry some gold in the inventory to fuel the effect.

NOT, please, Charms are the worst item who Blizzard created, because this was created in D2 and not in D3, bad, make the inventory full easily.

5. Do not touch monsters immunities/resistances. Introduce very unique jewels of different types which will add extra “-% monster resistances” when socketed it into staffs (crafting procedure).

Another interesting, and another a lot of coding for not make a more easy way.

6. Make monsters’ resistances’ cap 100%. If 100% - it’s immune. If less – possible to damage. Very simple and fair.

This is a good thing.

I am not flamming, but this is a mod coded for ONE man, so we need make the more good and easy to make the game more balanced. So after this, after make every thing need to balance and make quests and upgrade some systems, so he can make new and hard things.[/quote]
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Joined: 28 Feb 2014
Posts: 153

PostPosted: 17 Mar, 2017 2:55    Post subject:

3 immunities are enough, since have 4 elements.

So you want to use immunes to balance the game but only make them immune to 3 elements? Two problems:
1.) If their only non immune is physical, we're forced to use mind mace which is a hopeless spell
2.) If they're not immune to fire and lightning, then immunities have failed to balance this particular unit.

100% = imune = 0 damage
99% = receive 1% of your damage

You're only increasing damage by 1%. This doesn't make any noticeable difference. If monsters are immune, they already receive 13-40% damage (depending on items and if you use elemental drain). 1% will not make any difference.

I think your failing to realize the problem. Excessive immunities aren't a good way to deal with game balance.
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Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Posts: 80

PostPosted: 17 Mar, 2017 11:45    Post subject:

40% with 125 or 150% equal immune?

with 100% will be more easily.

so you think about 0 immunities?

diablo 2 is much more balanced and use immunities (except the thing of make a rw to tele, what tchernobog already work on). If tchernobog make all classes at least balanced in like aoe and single damage (balanced is one thing, equal or same is another thing) and none destroying all monsters instant and other killing one at one, this will OK.

when I release my ideas you can say about "falling to realize" you dont know about the complete changes can be made to easy balance this game.
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Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 10

PostPosted: 24 Sep, 2017 23:39    Post subject:

My thoughts are to adjust spell damages at each spell level and to add level requirements at each spell level. So, for say charged bolt, you can read spell book to get the skill at level 1. Then to read another one to get it to level 2 you may have to have a character level of 3, then for spell level 3 your character has to be 5. This would be in addition to the intelligence requirement to prevent being able to level a skill all the way early with really high intelligence items. This would go well with spell damage adjustments to have a consistent power increase through the early game into late game with immunities removed. So, basically just nerfing many of the spells damage and making it so they cant be upgraded well over the zones a player should be in at their current character level. Then, the main damage modifiers would be spell power and cast speed. This change would open up some uniques to removal of resistance penetration and the reduced resistance skill for the sorcerer. It would essentially make Sorcerers damage output more similar to that of physical damaging characters. Unless you plan on adding in Physical immune mobs o.O like there are in D2 lol.

Essentially this change would just remove immunities from monsters and then immunities or resistances in general would be saved for specific enemies and could be placed at various amounts. Say diablo since he uses fire and lighting you could apply 80% resistance to fire and 50% resistance to lightning to him. This would allow him to be killed (at differing paces) with these two types of abilities if they are preferred by the player, but allow adaptive users to kill him at a regular speed by switching up their spell kit. Then in say torment he could be completely immune to fire and have 75% lightning resist but still be vulnerable to cold.

I guess my understanding of different class types are that melee classes should be able to go head to head with boss monsters in single target fights but have a poor time fighting multiple enemies, while a magic character is best at clearing hordes of enemies but having a tough time fighting bosses as they are squishy and have to rely on their spells such as teleport to avoid attacks. Then bow characters are right in the middle with decent ability to take damage and be a happy medium between single target and multi target clear speed.

What I do know though is that balancing is a trial and error process and things have to be added, removed, and changed throughout the process. Maybe a good thing to do would be to have 2 versions of tcherno and have the second be a test version for various changes so that if they are gamebreaking it doesn't affect the current version.
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Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

PostPosted: 24 Sep, 2017 23:49    Post subject:

Ye that's actually the most meaningful thing that could possibly be suggested (as everyone are suggesting from only their point of view) - we're all but a bunch of alpha testers, so I don't see any problem for us to have multiple options to find out which one is best.
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