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Chernobog's Claw is useless?
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tanis83



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: 29 Nov, 2017 12:56    Post subject: Chernobog's Claw is useless?

I recently found this nifty sword and tried to use with my warrior just to face the unfair and collapse in agony.

Although its stats seem to be super cool for a level 40 warrior (HP + mana leech + cannot be frozen + high damage), the attack speed is above 500(!). Shocked I checked the docs and found that the attack speed for this sword (Tulwar, Tier 2) is only normal for warriors even though its +30% IAS.

What the hell?! That must be a bug, right? I tried to use it in hell level 16, nightmare difficulty and was super slow like David Carradine.

Problem is, this happened to me a few times already - buggy items that lack the boost they were supposed to have.

This can be super annoying... Sad
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Ugily



Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 261

PostPosted: 29 Nov, 2017 20:52    Post subject:

Use it with other speed boosting gear. Iratha set could help.
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Miso_Niz



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 71
Location: Somewhere in Japan

PostPosted: 30 Nov, 2017 2:06    Post subject:

thats not bug.
basically,weapons with high weapon damage are slow attack.

<Attack speed on 2nd tier normal swords>
Born Knife - 0.336 sec per attack
Gradius - 0.416 sec per attack
Rapier - 0.336 sec per attack
Backsword - 0.496 sec per attack
Espadon - 0.496 sec per attack
Tulwar - 0.640sec per attack
Battle Sword - 0.336 sec per attack
Rune Sword - 0.416 sec per attack
Ancient Sword - 0.416 sec per attack

*this APS is for warrior/barbarian

every uniques have good abilities,but have some negative too.
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tanis83



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: 30 Nov, 2017 10:26    Post subject:

Thanks for the hint & info on attack speed guys. But the math seems to be broken here. For Tulwar you say, attack speed is 0.64, subtracting the 30% (this item has 30% IAS) results in 0.64*0.7=0.448, but for me it shows ~560. And that makes a real difference.

BTW, the Iratha set is already way too weak for my warrior, it results in very low AC...

Well, I guess I'll just keep my eyes open for a better sword then.
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ferged



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 6

PostPosted: 01 Dec, 2017 18:32    Post subject:

found this sword today and tanis83 is right
the Chernobog sword is the higher level version of The Shadowhawk Bastard Sword but if you test them in hard fights you will immediately realize that the Shadowhawk is better every time - it's not even equal, it's better Smile
on one hand Chernobog is an 'addition' and maybe is not supposed to be well balanced but on the other hand Belzebub is a harder mod so it probably should be
in any case BB is just a mod and development is over so i don't think there is anything to be expected on the matter


Last edited by ferged on 01 Dec, 2017 20:08; edited 1 time in total
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Ugily



Joined: 08 Sep 2014
Posts: 261

PostPosted: 01 Dec, 2017 19:01    Post subject:

Use crafting recipe to Upgrade Set Armor and that helps the AC on Iratha
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tanis83



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: 08 Dec, 2017 10:46    Post subject:

I did a little bit of reverse engineering the other day and found a way to fix this sword. For now, it's still a bit inconvenient to use the fix, but I don't really mind. I might find a permanent way soon and I'll keep you posted.

For the other geeks, here's the thing:
1. attach a debugger/disassembler to Belzebub.exe
2. find the string TULWAR in memory (there should be a single occurence)
3. edit the byte at that offset+0x30 from 2 to 0

There you go. Now Chernobog's Claw has fast weapon speed (448) instead of normal (544). Also, all Tulwar swords have now "normal" speed, not "slow".

I don't consider this as a cheat. I believe no one-handed sword shall be of slow attack speed for a warrior else they would be completely useless.
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Hassadar



Joined: 09 Sep 2017
Posts: 57

PostPosted: 09 Dec, 2017 16:23    Post subject:

That is cheating.
If u can't grasp the mathematics used in this game and just put in what an item is "supposed" to have, than that's the very definition of cheating.
Please go and play solitaire or whatever you manage to play without cheating.
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tanis83



Joined: 16 Oct 2017
Posts: 27

PostPosted: 11 Dec, 2017 11:29    Post subject:

@Hassadar: you completely misunderstand my intentions. If I wanted to cheat I would do things like maxing the level of my Golem spell or my HP. Be honest to yourself and tell me, would you ever consider equipping Chernobog's Claw with your warrior as it is now? For sure, you could equip other stuff that raise your attack speed (you would need ~ +100% IAS to reach 448), but such targeted equipment always results in other deficiencies. And once again: slow attack speed for a middle-class 1H melee weapon - come on!
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Miso_Niz



Joined: 12 Jun 2016
Posts: 71
Location: Somewhere in Japan

PostPosted: 11 Dec, 2017 16:03    Post subject:

@Hassadar
Agree, that isn't legitmate play at least.
And then there are few viable way (gear combo) without Chernobog's Claw.
We have also choice to not use this (actually, i have never used Chernobog's Claw on warrior)

Generally, weapons with high base damage (Tulwar/Battle Hammer etc.) in this mod are slow APS.
So we need to consider gears combo repeatedly for doable/balancing between offense and defense/survivability.

I think its no matter whether feels hard or not, only legit or not is matter.
(So shortcuts such as cheat and sharing saves are not allowed officially, and the reason Noktis deletes cheat/share related posts)
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Hassadar



Joined: 09 Sep 2017
Posts: 57

PostPosted: 11 Dec, 2017 23:13    Post subject:

I never said that this a balanced or completely thought thru mod. But editing game code to what you think should be or not be is just cheating.
There are 2 major flaws in this mod, and that's for one thing some melee equipment isn't well thought thru and the other the resistance issue for caster in late game.
Am I pissed that my favourite class is completely useless in torment unless having a ridiculous amount of reducing resistance? Sure. Does that mean most items for casters are useless even though on paper look great? Sure. Do I code myself out of that by editing -resistances? No way!
It's sad that it's the way it is, but that doesn't mean it's unplayable it's just annoying. If one doesn't wanna put up with it don't play the game.
I do not believe I misunderstood you, but what you're saying is like "I don't cheat, I just edited it the way I think it should be". With that mindset it wouldn't be cheating if I edit the staff of my mage to -40% fire resistance cause I think that it should be the way and at least I don't give me -75% or make me invincible.
After all, if u play age of empires and u use a cheat to give you a small resource boost your using an cheat doesn't matter if u give yourself a little or big boost.
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Raz0r



Joined: 14 Mar 2017
Posts: 67
Location: Lost in Space

PostPosted: 12 Dec, 2017 19:04    Post subject:

guys relaxe! He explained that he just used his cheat by changing the game files to edit a little value on that item for being more useful to him. Of course that is cheating and i understand that some people think that this is sad.However, its his dicision and he ruins only his own game experience with that, not yours...

_________________
< Experienced Tchernobog player >
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Hassadar



Joined: 09 Sep 2017
Posts: 57

PostPosted: 12 Dec, 2017 21:06    Post subject:

I'm not angry or anything, I just pointed out that this is cheating, despite his view, and that I dislike it. If it were a multiplayer game I'd be raging but it isn't so what the hell.
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Miacis



Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 140
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg

PostPosted: 13 Dec, 2017 11:12    Post subject:

I don't see how editing a fan-made modification (development of which AT BEST is on hold for a year or something) is considered cheating. Or would you say, the whole mod IS cheating? Creator of mod made it the way he thought it is good, some other guy has different point of view on balancing and made it the other way. There's two people who can modify the game and I don't see why one of these two poins of view on balancing would be superior over another one.

He also does not have any advantages over somebody else, by the way, because belzebub is singleplayer.

It's not like tanis83 made himself invincible or got infinite character points, exaggerating this little change so much is just being a dick towards the guy. To put it in other words, it's like he said "I'm drinking just one cup of wine after the dinner because I think it is healthy", and someone else is yelling "look at him he is a drunk! he can consume liters of alcohol!"

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Diablo HD is the best mod ever. Still waiting for Tchernobug fixes...
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Hassadar



Joined: 09 Sep 2017
Posts: 57

PostPosted: 14 Dec, 2017 20:30    Post subject:

With that argument bobafett would have been just a tool to mod and the developers of Diablo just some moders. Blizzard made Diablo the way they thought it was good and some other guy using bobafett thought differently.
I know it's single player and that for he shall do as he wants to. Btw, that guy who made a video of rouge using perm insanity buff is also no cheater cause it's single player...

Doesn't matter how deep the impact of one editing game data is, it's still editing. And using an disassambler is also not very friendly to the developer, if he wanted us to change code he would have made it open source.
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